Front brake rotor VERY HOT

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Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby coolcat600 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:08 pm

Alright so I'm brand new to this forum, so hey!
Anyway, I bought a 2003 yzf600r two weeks ago and it seemed to be in great condition with the exception of its fork seals and tires. So i brought it into a shop.
With the fork seals i was concerned because there was oil on the upper fork, but also because there was oil collecting at the bottom at the fork. After the shop replaced the seals, there was no longer oil on the upper fork but there was still oil collecting at the bottom.
Also, when i got the bike back from the shop and rode it home, i noticed a sound that i hadn't heard from the bike before. It /sounded like the ticking/clicking of metal cooling down. After another ride, i heard it again and tracked the noise to the front-right brake rotor. It was extremely hot, not only in absolute terms but also relative to the left.

If anyone has any suggestions, they would be extremely appreciated!
Thanks!
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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby vashtsdaytona » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:50 am

one rotor being hot, implies that caliper is dragging, aka always partially putting pressure on the pads. could your oil you see collecting at the bottom be brake fluid? inspect your calipers for leaks
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Postby ptrimby » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:53 am

Calipers for leaks, but also (imo) could more likely be the pistons dragging. Did the previous owner mention replacing the brake pads? Many folks just push the pistons in without cleaning them. That pushes dirt into the piston seals, and causes them to drag.

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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby coolcat600 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:43 pm

Well i'm fairly certain it isn't brake fluid, as it has a pinkish color to it. Now, my knowledge of motorcycle mechanics is minimal, so excuse my underly-technical terms. But, there is a screw on the lower part of my fork that was loose, and i was wondering if oil could be leaking out of it? And i forgot to mention, it is my left fork that has the issue, and the right brake rotor. So i dont think they are related.
After doing some searches on google, i started to think that the hot rotor may be caused by an uncentered wheel? I also remember that occasionally, the bike felt a little unbalanced. So is it possible that the shop didn't center the wheel, causing the bike to feel unbalanced and the rotor to be hot?


p.s. I'm reluctant to think that it is being caused by an issue with the caliper because the shop didn't mess with the brakes (as far as i know). They did do a brake check, which i assume was strictly visual.
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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby SilverRider » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:09 pm

You got the correct answer, but choose to ignore us. What do we know? :dunno
Fix the brakes.

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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby jrhendryx » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:23 pm

There's a wealth of information here, and you really should listen to what they have to say. Think about it like this - regardless of what is causing something to drag on the rotor, SOMETHING is causing friction and heat... enough so that it actually ticks like a cooling engine once you stop moving. Something like that should be pretty obvious. Have someone roll the bike while you watch where the rotor passes through the caliper. Something has to be touching there. If it were something in the axle, it would make the entire wheel hot, not just one side, and definitely not just one rotor. They had to take the whole front end apart to do the fork seals, so they probably put something back poorly. They could have accidentally popped a brake piston out while they had the wheel out to pull the lower fork leg off. In other words, they messed with your brakes, wheel, forks, and the entire setup of the front end. Take it back to the shop, and tell them to fix whatever they screwed up. When it comes to the forks EVERYTHING is related. They could have one of the forks slightly bent/tweaked, and that would throw the whole geometry of the front end off. Maybe one of the forks is in slightly higher than the other, causing it to be slightly out of square.... Who knows. Pictures of the rotor/caliper would help.

TL:DR version -
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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby coolcat600 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:37 am

Alright, i took it back to the shop. They lifted the bike and rolled the wheel, found that it rolled fine. The guy took the bike and checked the pistons, and i think he said they were a bit dirty. He said there was sand or something, so he cleaned it out and i rode it home. It seems to be better, because i didn't hear the ticking. And the oil mysteriously has stopped collecting at the bottom of my fork. I appreciate the help! (sorry for being a stubborn ass)
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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby jrhendryx » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:14 am

So it could have been weeping brake fluid, caused by jacked up brake pistons. Basically, the shop was sloppy and tried to get it done quick. I'd be curious to hear how many hours they charged you for in labor the first time. A practiced shop should be able to do this kind of job pretty quickly.

Everyone has the right to be a stubborn ass from time to time - The difference is that on a bike, it can be deadly. I'm glad to hear you got it sorted out and that it was something simple! Go to the Newbies section and introduce yourself, post some pictures of the bike, and get a proper welcome to the forum!

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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby coolcat600 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:23 pm

ahhh man, so it turns out the problem hasnt been fixed. I called the shop and they said its probably due to dragging pistons. They said they could not have caused the problem because they didnt touch that area. But im pretty sure the problem wasnt there before i took it in. So i dont know if i should just ignore the problem or dish out some more cash to fix it. Any suggestions?


Is there some sort of rebuild kit i could get and do myself?
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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby bretb » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:51 pm

Yes, there is a rebuild you NEED to do on the front calipers. Within the How To Master list is a caliper rebuild thread. In that thread will be the part numbers you need for the seals on the calipers. You will also need DOT 4 brake fluid, brake pads (2 pkgs because there is only one side in a pkg), and basic metric hand tools such as wrenches and/or sockets. There is no special brake bleeding tools. All you need to bleed the brakes is some clear tubing from a hardware store and a pop bottle/beer bottle/anything. It will help if you have someone pull the lever and top off the master cylinder while you're turning the wrench, but one person can do the job. Something else to consider while doing this task; consider doing a master cylinder rebuild also, or simply replace the master cylinder if you don't want to do the job. Another consideration will be brake lines. Over time, the continuous swelling and contracting of the lines makes them crack, and get weak.

Costs - Expect the caliper rebuild with new pads to run approx $120 on the very high end. If you replace the master cylinder, I'd estimate adding $50. Brake lines will range between $80 off ebay on up. DO NOT BUY USED brake lines, you may regret it. You will also need some rags or blue shop towels, BrakeKleen or other brake cleaner, and some clothes you don't mind getting dirty. This is a job that can be done in an apartment parking lot. When you disconnect the calipers from the hoses, place a jar or something under the hose and move on. You do not have to remove the front wheel for any of this.

Estimate your total time to be about 3 hrs total time for the caliper rebuild and bleed. If you do master cylinder and/or brake lines, add about an 1~1.5hrs.

As for being stubborn, yeah, we all are, so don't feel like you have the corner market to yourself. The shop didn't touch the area comment is really nice and all, but the fact is, if they sprayed brake clean or other solvent to clean off the gunk, they were in the area. Furthermore, if a customer complains of a brake dragging, the likely hood of the brakes not being touched, or looked over is extremely slim, and the first step of a law suit. No more Dealership unless you have to buy parts in an immediate situation. Nothing against dealership mechanics, or dealerships as whole, if you don't have to go there, don't. You will be hundreds of dollars ahead of the situation and much more confident. There are stupid questions!!! They are the questions that don't get asked. Or when the answer is ignored for a better response. And, once again, we have all done it and do the :doh afterwards.
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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby coolcat600 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:16 pm

Wow, thanks so much for the very detailed response! Seriously, WOW
You are a huge help!
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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby coolcat600 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:26 pm

http://yzf600r.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54041
(posting for my own ease of access)
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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby bretb » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:22 pm

That is the link. Good on you. Have you started tackling this yet, or still in the planning stages?
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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby bickjc » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:22 pm

When I rebuilt my calipers, I didn't end up replacing the seals. Did a visual check and there weren't any cracks or visual damage to the main piston seals, so I just cleaned em up and reused them. The dust seals were slightly worn, but they aren't as cruicial as the main seal, so again, just reused 'em for now. From what I hear, there are bikes out there that don't even use dust seals on their calipers.

Basically, if you need to save a few bucks, take em apart and visually check them first. They could just be dirty and your seals be pretty okay.

Not saying it's the best idea, but it's what I did, and I haven't had any issues at all.

Also, do you have the stock rubber brake lines or braided steel ones? If by any chance they're steel, you might not need to replace those either. Depends on how old they are, what condition they're in, but that could save you a few more bucks too.
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Re: Front brake rotor VERY HOT

Postby ptrimby » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:01 am

The dust seals on our bikes are also centering seals. Keeps the pistons from binding crooked.
Pink fluid may also be caliper grease they used on the pistons, but heated up so it was "oily".
A 2003 - if they are the rubber hoses, it wouldn't hurt doing a full system overhaul like recommended. 'They' typically say 10 years for rubber parts. Seals are rubber, hoses are rubber...eh can't hurt.
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