Downshifting downer

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Downshifting downer

Postby MadYZF » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:16 am

The downshifting numbers in my '04's manual don't subtract down (pun intended):
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby Pepperoni » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:36 pm

IDK, makes perfect sense to me:

In any gear, slow down to 25mph, shift down.

Isn't that what everybody does? :dunno

I can't imagine how running down to 25mph in 4th, 5th or 6th could cause a problem...
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby MadYZF » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:08 pm

Pepperoni wrote:IDK, makes perfect sense to me:

In any gear, slow down to 25mph, shift down.

Isn't that what everybody does? :dunno

I can't imagine how running down to 25mph in 4th, 5th or 6th could cause a problem...
I'm referring to the downshifting section values inside the rectangular outline. If I'm on 6th and want to downshift to 5th, I know I don't need to slow down to 15 mph beforehand to make it happen safely. Even if I did, the chart doesn't make sense when it shows the same mph value for the 6-5, 5-4, 4-3, 3-2 and 2-1 pairs. It should show mph values that correspond to the target gear.

I'm not even picking on that fact that going 15 mph on 6th, 5th, 4th and maybe 3rd is a bad idea to begin with. The rpms would be dangereously too low on the higher gears.
Last edited by MadYZF on Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby Pepperoni » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:58 pm

MadYZF wrote:I'm referring to the downshifting section values insied the rectangular outline. If I'm on 6th and want to downshift to 5th, I know I don't need to slow down to 15 mph beforehand to make it happen safely. Even if I did, the chart doesn't make sense when it shows the same mph value for the 6-5, 5-4, 4-3, 3-2 and 2-1 pairs. It should show mph values that correspond to the target gear.

I'm not even picking on that fact that going 15 mph on 6th, 5th, 4th and maybe 3rd is a bad idea to begin with. The rpms would be dangereously too low on the higher gears.


Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to. Although, I didn't realize it was "kph" so, yeah, FIFTEEN mph is called for...

Obviously it's a misprint that one should, according to the chart, slow down to 15mph in ANY gear before downshifting. And, of course, even the upshifting chart is silly by 1/2. You understand that, even if it had proper numbers for downshifting, this is just some stupid thing that their legal department made them include.

In my experience with my YZF, pretty much anything under about 3,500rpm means the engine is lugging or I'm slipping the clutch, regardless of gear/road speed. Around town and in fuel-conservation mode, I usually have the engine running around 4k--I upshift when the next gear drops revs back to 4k, and downshift to keep the revs above 4k. Might sound low, but I know I'll get power if I roll on the throttle and I don't need the exhaust sound screaming in town. With stock gearing and Dunlop Q3s, it's running around 4k in 6th gear at about 60mph and 8k at 80mph.
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby Riceburner » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:17 am

interesting. The 1996 manual doesn't have downshift points, but the 2002 has the same as the 2004 at 25 km/hr. It does state to go to 35 km/kr to go from 5th to 3rd though.
At 25 km/hr, I'd be in 1st gear not 6th. In 6th I'd be well over 100 km/hr and if dropping below that, then going to 5th.

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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby Pepperoni » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:58 am

Okay, fine, but why are you riding in Switzerland? (see the top image you posted). Or, to put it another way, why ONLY in Switzerland do they have that instruction? (Answer: liability)
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby MadYZF » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:12 am

Pepperoni wrote:Okay, fine, but why are you riding in Switzerland? (see the top image you posted). ....
ImageJust a wild guess by proxy...!
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby MadYZF » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:07 am

Riceburner wrote:interesting. The 1996 manual doesn't have downshift points, but the 2002 has the same as the 2004 at 25 km/hr. It does state to go to 35 km/kr to go from 5th to 3rd though.
At 25 km/hr, I'd be in 1st gear not 6th. In 6th I'd be well over 100 km/hr and if dropping below that, then going to 5th. ....
The treatment of this section is bizarre. Looks like someone came up with the idea of adding the downshift points table but no one tested it out or updated it with correct values.

Looks like our friends at the R1-Forum.com have their own version of this X-Files episode. Of course, the legal department gets the blame:
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/361-yama ... ation.html :excellent
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby Pepperoni » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:15 pm

I don't think the '96 manual covers BMWs...
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby tuning-forks » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:45 pm

Pepperoni wrote: With stock gearing and Dunlop Q3s, it's running around 4k in 6th gear at about 60mph and 8k at 80mph.

One or both of these numbers must be off? :eek
I'm stock gearing and tire size and 4K in 6th puts me around 50 mph. At 8K I'm about 100mph :D . I'd expect both your numbers could be high or low, but not one of each?
With the metric speedo it's very consistent, double the tach reading and add zero. So for 6.5K on tach I'm at 130kmh.
4K is 80kph, 8K is 160kph.
I realize the gauges are not perfect, but those are the basic numbers. If my speedo cable breaks I'll have a pretty good idea of my speed. Only works for metric though, sorry. ;)
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby Riceburner » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:00 pm

The 96 pic is from a soft copy I have. Whoever put it up may have been in Switzerland. I wish I was riding in Switzerland...and Europe.
Looked at my actual 1996 manual and it doesn't even have recommendations for shift points...up or down. The 1997 one does and it's the same since.

Decided to see how slow I could go in 6th gear. I almost couldn't do it. 6th gear at just over 25 km/hr is running just above idle RPMs. Actually unsafe IMHO.

With a 70 front tire:
The only tach to speed ratio I've ever bothered to remember is that stock gearing in 6th at 120km/hr was 6k RPM...and both needles are straight across.
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby Pepperoni » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:23 am

tuning-forks wrote:
Pepperoni wrote: With stock gearing and Dunlop Q3s, it's running around 4k in 6th gear at about 60mph and 8k at 80mph.

One or both of these numbers must be off? :eek
I'm stock gearing and tire size and 4K in 6th puts me around 50 mph. At 8K I'm about 100mph :D . I'd expect both your numbers could be high or low, but not one of each?
With the metric speedo it's very consistent, double the tach reading and add zero. So for 6.5K on tach I'm at 130kmh.
4K is 80kph, 8K is 160kph.
I realize the gauges are not perfect, but those are the basic numbers. If my speedo cable breaks I'll have a pretty good idea of my speed. Only works for metric though, sorry. ;)


Apparently, I'm as bad as the Yamaha YZF manual writer. :doh

So, 4k (maybe 4500) 60 and 6k 80.
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Re: Downshifting downer

Postby MadYZF » Sat May 13, 2017 8:19 pm

Riceburner wrote:The 96 pic is from a soft copy I have. Whoever put it up may have been in Switzerland. I wish I was riding in Switzerland...and Europe....
Don't loose hope:
10 Great Motorcycle Rides In North America
http://www.motorcycle.com/features/10-g ... erica.html
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